Hi Steve

Back on MeWe I mentioned the option of And/But. I personally feel that Garnett's idea is interesting but more complicated than it need be, which is why I prefer And/But as an option (on top of which And/But works for all dice resolutions, combat related or not). You might want to check out the old "Yes But, No But" thread at https://championsoflemuria.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=24

[A few days back I posted the little preamble to the test/very small game of Garnett Elliott’s new mechanics. Here’s what happened, in case anyone is curious] 

Well, I’m sure everyone will be pleased to know that Jacinto Cruz survived the unfortunate fallout from his dalliance with the lovely Donna Paloma, although he is now clearly a fugitive from Ibari justice. 

He was in the governor’s house inside the central tower walls of the fortress guarding the colony of Villar de Rena. To escape justice, he had to leave the precincts of the central tower, avoid capture from the roused garrison sleeping in the barracks, and get over the 12 foot curtain wall of the fortress. Lucky for him, his friend Manuel Lago the ballestera (crossbowman) was the only other guard inside the central tower. (Jacinto was a rodeleros – a ‘shield-bearer’ or sword and buckler man.) 

The men escaped together, and rather than go to the stables and steal horses they decided to scale the walls and jump down. As Manuel was slower than Jacinto in running to the walls, he provided distraction to one alert guard (shooting his crossbow at a non-existent fugitive fleeing in another direction), while Jacinto soon after had to deal with another – punching him in the face with his sword hilt rather than killing him. There were towers set into the wall, and the pair gained entrance to one and rushed up the stairs, but not before Jacinto was clipped by a crossbow bolt. 

They had to fight the guards and trying not to kill soon became impractical if they wanted to escape. Manuel was struggling against two guards and getting hurt while Jacinto took on the garrison captain, a deadly swordsman. After wounding the captain badly, Jacinto finally knocked him unconscious with his sword hilt (I’ve a feeling he may regret this in a later game.) To the sound behind them of horses being led out of the stables by the lancers and men from other wall towers rushing up the tower steps from below, the two rogues jumped from the wall. They landed without mishap. 

Each corner of the fortress had a triangular ravelin emplacement, with wall mounted falconets (small cannon) and some arcabuceros (harquebusiers) in residence. The town of Villar de Rena lay some 500 yards to the east of the fortress, so hugging close to the wall the two fugitives sneaked past the ravelin unseen by either by the occupants or by guards on the wall – hoping to make their way to the buildings of the town. But the lancers were now out of the fortress and spreading out on the way to town – and they could also hear the fortress’s war dogs barking. So, they decided to sneak back past the ravelin again. 

To the rear of the fortress was a small creek that flowed down to the town. Leaving the shadow of the wall Jacinto and Manuel ran to the creek and ran along it – they could hear the dogs coming! Sure enough the dogs got their scent but lost the trail at the creek. Moving slower now, to avoid loud splashing, the pair heard a conversation between the kennel master and his accompanying guards. Not sure of which way along the stream the men had gone, the party split. Lucky for Jacinto and Manuel, the dogs and half the guards headed towards town. Three guards started off towards them. 

There was no place to hide, undergrowth being cut back close to the fortress walls, so the pursuers had to be dealt with quickly. A vicious fight of three versus two ensued. Manuel took another small wound but the guards were quickly killed. A stand of trees stood nearby and Manuel and Jacinto headed into the cover of the forest and ran for their lives…

Last edited by Gruntfuttock (1/28/2024 2:53 am)

Overall, we found the Damage to Defence rules a bit clunky and that they slowed down combat resolution – never a good thing in our view. It got even more confusing when a fighter invoked extra damage by using a hero point and the opponent used damage to defence. It seemed unfair for a player to not get the benefit of the hero point or rolling a double six. In short, these rules were not to our taste, although some players may like them, but we still thought that objectively (ha!) they were a tad clunky. Personally, we prefer the duelling rules from Pulse Pounding Pulp to simulate the ebb and flow of a swordfight.
 
The Rolling Doubles rules were more to our taste, and we will be using these in our next Xochi game which we will play next Sunday. Unfortunately, perhaps, doubles do seem to be quite rare unless you are rolling three dice. However, this seems logical, as you would seem to do well at things you are good at. The question will arise at some tables about rolling doubles outside of combat – shouldn’t that get a bonus of some sort too? We had doubles come up when running to escape. Perhaps out of combat this could be time for a ‘Yes, but’ result (determined either by GM or Player), or alternatively by the player rolling doubles gaining a hero point. If they are rolling for a Tough companion, perhaps even a Tough NPC could gain a hero point – I think I’d like that!

Last edited by Gruntfuttock (1/30/2024 11:10 pm)

Like you Robert, I think 'Yes, and' is probably best used out of combat. Without having it embedded in the rules as such, I and my players have often used it over the years.

In combat I find my brain freezes in those situations where it might be applicable - I just want to get on to the next combat round asap! - and I can't think of anything to add but 'You succeed, roll for damage' or 'You fail'. Just the way my mind works I suppose.