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1/23/2015 5:21 pm  #11


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

I'm a little late to the discussion, but felt compelled to leave some comments.

Venomous Filigree wrote:

So, given that Mythic uses light, medium and heavy damage, how do you think this best fits with firearms? Does this relate to small, medium and large calibre ammunition?

Personally, I think that would be a solid, logical approach. You'd need some additional guidelines, and modifiers for automatic weapons or shotgun 'spread'. You could use 2d6x2 for heavy weapons.

So, starting with small calibre firearms, what's the minimum harm that they might done to a person? If it was equated to 2d6(low dice) I guess even the 'weakest' firearm is going to be + something?

I think this depends on whether you'd use the same 'power level' that's present in BoL. Would you continue to use the Rabble, Toughs, and Villains model to represent the antagonists that PCs face? If so, then even a 2D6L (small calibre) firearm would drop most Rabble and take down Toughs after a few shots (and possibly quicker with leveraged Hero Points).

Armor will likely be less of a factor for most antagonists in firearm-prevalent settings, so you're getting some damage gain there. Except in the case of those who are sporting bulletproof vests or riot gear.

Last edited by K Peterson (1/23/2015 9:35 pm)

 

1/23/2015 6:33 pm  #12


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

K, we're thinking along the same lines

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1/23/2015 10:49 pm  #13


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

Also, taking into account the potential for Mighty and Legendary successes means that firearms, like melee weapons, can be very lethal indeed. So, the question is probably best discussed as "what is the baseline"? Is the baseline potential damage vs Villains, Toughs or Rabble? If the baseline is set incorrectly it could turn out either overpowered when used against Rabble, or underpowered when used against Villains.

I guess that means the the baseline should be set vs Toughs. Toughs have an average Lifeblood of 5-8. Are we wanting firearms to be able to kill Toughs with one hit, two hits or more?

Last edited by The GIT! (1/23/2015 10:50 pm)


Wealth can be wonderful, but you know, success can test one's mettle as surely as the strongest adversary.
 

1/24/2015 3:23 am  #14


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

Here's some snippets of the rules I'm using for my games at the moment:

Small calibre – d6L+2
Medium calibre – d6+2
Large calibre – d6H+2
Shotguns Point blank – d6H+2, Near – d6, Far – d6L

Damage for weapons using auto-fire adds the strength or [and?] soldier career (whichever is higher) of the hero, as he overcomes the natural tendency of the weapon to drift of target. [no effect on the task roll, just damage]

So a large calibre weapon will kill a tough outright nearly all of the time, and a medium calibre weapon about 50% of the time. This sounds good to me...

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1/24/2015 11:13 am  #15


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

I've used the Dogs of War firearms rules before in play. Effective and simple. Simon has machineguns doing Mythic style damage (2d6, highest roll +1).
 

 

1/25/2015 11:38 am  #16


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

Venomous Filigree wrote:

Here's some snippets of the rules I'm using for my games at the moment:

Small calibre – d6L+2
Medium calibre – d6+2
Large calibre – d6H+2
Shotguns Point blank – d6H+2, Near – d6, Far – d6L

Damage for weapons using auto-fire adds the strength or [and?] soldier career (whichever is higher) of the hero, as he overcomes the natural tendency of the weapon to drift of target. [no effect on the task roll, just damage]

So a large calibre weapon will kill a tough outright nearly all of the time, and a medium calibre weapon about 50% of the time. This sounds good to me...

This is really good! 

Simple and easy to apply.  I think the +2 is an excellent way of making guns dangerous weapons. I really like the shotgun rules. What would you use for range increments? The ranges in Dicey Tales aren't conducive with table-top battlefields. I feel they are way to long. With a table top battle field we should see a hero have to move closer to effectively use his pistol while someone with a long range rifle can dominate open areas.

I kept reading your automatic fire rule and saying, "but I like the auto rules in Dicey Tales". The Dicey Tales rules account for a game that doesn't measure ammo. But...your autofire rules account for strength and training and work as well. Nice job. I'm completely torn.
 

Last edited by jasales (1/26/2015 9:49 am)

 

1/25/2015 3:40 pm  #17


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

I'm testing out ammo rules:

No ammo is tracked for weapons that solely use single-shot, your hero always has enough ammo for it. If a hero’s personal firearm is capable of firing on auto-fire, then he has a magazine capacity of 3 + soldier career, for that weapon. A hero can always fire his auto-fire weapon on single-shot, as long as he has one magazine remaining (subject to the restrictions of the weapon). Every time a hero misses a shot on auto-fire, he uses up a magazine. 

Last edited by Venomous Filigree (1/25/2015 3:41 pm)

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1/26/2015 10:32 am  #18


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

I like the new proposed firearms damage rules. Very simple and in the spirit of BoL Mythic. I like the auto-fire rules but I would strongly suggest that the damage adds Strength or Soldier career rather than allowing Str + Career to combine; the latter just feels too overpowered for my liking.

Also, are the rules for burst and auto-fire likely to remain the same (except for auto-fire damage)? If so, perhaps we could also add in rules for double-tap? Perhaps -1 to hit / +1 damage?

Last edited by The GIT! (1/26/2015 10:36 am)


Wealth can be wonderful, but you know, success can test one's mettle as surely as the strongest adversary.
 

1/26/2015 12:17 pm  #19


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

We'll be trying out the firearms rules this weekend at Conception, I'll post the full version then once it's seen some action.

At present there is no distinction between, 3 round burst and auto-fire, if the weapon fires multiple shots it's an auto-fire weapon. Also there is no double tap rule, with no ammo for single shot weapons why wouldn't you double tap all the time?

Currently there is no modifier to an auto-fire roll, instead of the weapon fighting your strength / skill causing the shot to be harder, you use your strength / skill to keep the weapon on target to inflict more damage.

If we look at strength and soldier as opposed to strength or soldier I guess it boils down to what values do you give NPCs?

Rabble typically have 0 attributes, 0 combat abilities and 0 to 1 careers, so in this instance they’re likely to have soldier 1 and would do +1 damage on auto-fire. However this is overruled by the rabble damage rules.

Toughs typically have 0-2 attributes, 0-2 combat abilities and 2 careers. For regular infantry it would likely include strength 0 or 1 and soldier 1, so damage would be +2 at most for your typically tough soldier firing on auto-fire

Villains can be built how we want, however a villain with strength 3 and soldier 3 would be an exceptional soldier, why shouldn’t he deal +6 damage with his auto-fire weapon?

All good discussion, keep them coming!

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1/26/2015 1:58 pm  #20


Re: Firearms (Mythic)

My concern with allowing Strength + Career to combine for damage on auto-fire is at the upper limit. Your example of Str 3 and Soldier 3 combining for a +6 (which will actually be +8 when accounting for the firearm damage) is fine. In an extreme case, however, of a character with 6 Str (Giant Str Boon) and Soldier 5, he will now do d6+2+11 damage (and that doesn't account for a Mighty Success giving an additional +6). Further, you are suggesting that the auto-fire rules do not impose any negative modifiers for the to-hit roll (which is makes sense) so the chances of hitting are pretty high.

I understand that this is an extreme example but I do feel that a robust ruleset has to account for extreme cases as much as it does for the mundane.

Last edited by The GIT! (1/26/2015 1:58 pm)


Wealth can be wonderful, but you know, success can test one's mettle as surely as the strongest adversary.
 

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