1 - jasales
- Warrior
Offline - Registered: 7/03/2014
- Posts: 145
Mythic Initiative
In another thread I mentioned that I'd been using the Mythic Initiative rules incorrectly and once I realized that and read how they are supposed to be used I found them clunky.
What I had been doing was just using Mind + Initiative plus the 2d6 roll and then just using the raw scores as an initiative order. I wasn't using it as intended which is as a normal check with success, mighty success etc.
I didn't realized I'd been doing it wrong until yesterday and Simon wanted some discussion on this. So I've started this thread.
A high to low score is completely intuitive to me. I find the new rules using success and all that, well it stops things up short while folks try to figure out the order. I've seen a chart someone showed but I don't want to look at a chart for this during play. I want to know immediately who is going first, next etc. I find that the new initiative rules are causing a dely in my game, kinda like the shaken, wound system in Savage Worlds. Me and my players love Savage Worlds but every start of every game season the first few games grind to a hault as folks try to remember how to apply the rules.
Having one mechanic fit all situations...it sounds good on paper but in play, it isn't always the best fit.
I would have provided this feedback a long time ago, but I didn't read the rules completely and didn't know I was messing it up. I'm sorry about that.
And the chart brings up some other odd things I find about this new initiative. If a tough or rabble can't attack a hero with mighty or legendary success in a round, what happens when they do something that effects a small area. Is the hero with mighty or legendary initiative roll immune?
Simon wanted to know what I'd been doing wrong and I think I've explained that in the second paragraph. Venemous Filgree asked what I found clunky about this and I think I've explained that. Let me know if I can provide anymore feedback.
Last edited by jasales (11/21/2014 8:52 am)
- The GIT!
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- Registered: 2/05/2014
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Re: Mythic Initiative
Good idea starting a new thread.
I'm 100% behind you on this and I'm pretty sure I have mentioned my concerns in the past. I personally find the Intiative rules in BoL Mythic to be unituitive and overly complicated and, like jasales, I feel that it impacts the flow of the game too much.
Another issue I have is with the extra advantage it gives to Heroes over Villains et al. This just doesn't sit right with me as Heroes have a lot of advantages as it is; sometimes knowing the bad guy can go first does add an extra element to decision making on the player's part.
One other thing (and this is purely a personal houserule I am looking to use) is that I am working on having a single task resolution roll establish the success of an attack, the amount of damage dealt by the attack, and the initiative for the next round. With the new Initiative rule in BoL Mythic this houserule will be stymied. That's just an aside but I thought I'd share it anyway.
One thing I will say is that if the Inititive rules in BoL Mythic remains I won't be upset or frustrated. One of the great strengths of BoL is that it is very much backwards compatible with previous iterations and it will be easy to continue with the Legendary rules on Initiative while embracing the rest of the Mythic rules.
I hope this doesn't come across as negative because I am very excited about BoL Mythic - I just don't like the new Initiative rules is all 
Wealth can be wonderful, but you know, success can test one's mettle as surely as the strongest adversary.
- Venomous Filigree
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Re: Mythic Initiative
An average villain will go before an average hero more often than not (ignoring, boons, flaws hero/villain points). A Hero would roll 2d6 +2 (mind 1, initiative 1) -1 (villains initiative). With a standard difficulty of 9 this means the player needs to roll 8 or more on two dice to go first.
I personally find no difference between sorting by success and sorting by final roll value.
Not sure what is meant by the small area comment. A tough can attack who he likes, it's the when that is restricted.
- Venomous Filigree
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Re: Mythic Initiative
In the games we recently ran at IndieCon, nearly all sessions had the party split really 50/50 on success and fails.
Whilst The Git mentions that no one is forced to use the Priority Rules it is RAW for this version, that's why I'd like to clarify the above. 
- jasales
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Re: Mythic Initiative
Venomous Filigree wrote:
I personally find no difference between sorting by success and sorting by final roll value.
Not sure what is meant by the small area comment. A tough can attack who he likes, it's the when that is restricted.
I find it a great deal different. That was what I was trying to get accross.
Area: lets say a tough lights a pool of oil on the ground and standing in that pool are several player characters, one of which had a mighty success on his Priority roll. Is he immune to the attack?
Are these RAW right now? Or is this still open for discussion/feedback?
Last edited by jasales (11/21/2014 10:20 am)
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Thread Starter- Venomous Filigree
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Re: Mythic Initiative
No he would not be immune to the attack, the attack would be directed at all characters in the oil, regardless of their priority.
Priority determines when characters take an action, it does not influence receiving the results of those actions in any way.
Yes, Priority Rolls are RAW. As far as I'm aware this is a concern by a minority.
- Venomous Filigree
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Re: Mythic Initiative
I guess it boils down to what you are used to. I've not used rules that have a numbered initiative order for a while. It would take me longer to ask what result everyone had note it down, and then arrange them in that order, than it does to ask "who succeeded, ok you go first, now it's villains and toughs, now those that failed, finally rabble" (mighty and legendary successes are rare and don't make it any more complex for me).
- nerosfiddle
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Re: Mythic Initiative
To each his own of course, but I found the Initiative mechanic in Mythic to speed up play in my games.
That may be because most of my games are run online via Roll20 and so for an online medium it's much easier to lump who goes when based on groups instead of individuals, but for whatever reason, I find that I appreciate the system greatly.
But has been previously mentioned, the beauty of BoL is how easy it is to adapt to one's preferences.
- The GIT!
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Re: Mythic Initiative
I'm obviously in the minority here so I don't really want to pursue this too much. What I don't particularly like is that all the Heroes who score a success then have to either decide who goes first or check their Agility values to determine their order. A simple Initiative roll, highest to lowest, would make this far simpler than "Who scored a success? OK, who want's to go first? You can't decide? OK, who has the highest Agility?" Personally I just don't see that making Initiative a Task Resolution roll is any improvement on the Legendary rules (other than having Initiative as one of the Combat Abilities). Also, as I said before, I don't like that all those who score a Success get to go before the enemy.
When all is said and done I really feel that strongly about the new Initiative rules; I just won't be using them is all 
Wealth can be wonderful, but you know, success can test one's mettle as surely as the strongest adversary.
- Gruntfuttock
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Re: Mythic Initiative
My objection to the new initiative rules are more genre specific.
I'm fine with using Mythic initiative for Sword and Sorcery - I think it's a good fit for S&S.
But for pulp - or indeed any game set in the 19th Century onward, I'll keep using Legendary Edition with Brawl as a combat stat and the old initiative rules. The bloke who is a serious fighter using his/her hands and feet - boxer, martial artist, huge hulking thug - but useless with a gun or a blade makes sense IMHO in those sort of games. Moose Malloy in a hardboiled detective game, the Chinese assassin in 1920s Shanghai - these need a separate brawl attribute to work well. Conan I expect to be as good with his fists as he is with his sword. Your mileage with vary, no doubt.
More my issue with the substitution of Initiative for Brawl, I admit - rather than the Mythic initiative rules as such.
Last edited by Gruntfuttock (11/29/2014 6:36 am)
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